Curse

Free Runner · Oct 21, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Thorn being like a construct is indeed an interesting theory and it takes us away from the Lich/Envoy mentality. However that would bring us to wonder how he can phase in and out of the mortal plane. All the construct types up until now have been physically made on Tyria or come through a portal to get to Tyria (Shiro'ken and the Titans). Both display different abilities, for instance the Titans who change with their environment. Thorn is able to just "appear" in the mortal realm without a portal.

As to where his power comes from...thats one of the three mysteries of Thorn. I am really hoping Anet will someday (be it in GW1 or GW2) go into more detail with Thorns backstory.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 21, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Thorn being like a construct is indeed an interesting theory and it takes us away from the Lich/Envoy mentality. However that would bring us to wonder how he can phase in and out of the mortal plane. All the construct types up until now have been physically made on Tyria or come through a portal to get to Tyria (Shiro'ken and the Titans). Both display different abilities, for instance the Titans who change with their environment. Thorn is able to just "appear" in the mortal realm without a portal.

Shiro is able to go from construct to construct with his own free will, so I would assume that any spirit can as too, as long as it's of their own free will, and not being forced to be part of that construct.

With this, I would say there are two possibilities, if Thorn is a construct using a pumpkin as a body.

First, he comes and goes into new pumpkin bodies (always changing the pumpkin head to be the same) and comes and goes between Tyria and the Rift (or some other worlds) via one of Odran's portals.

Second, he comes and goes in the old body, using one of Odran's portals. It is known that physical bodies can exist in the Rift, as that is a physical place as well, and we travel there four times (Fissure of Woe, Underworld, Hall of Heroes, Realm of Torment).

I favor the second over all other ideas now (seems more likely to be a construct then a Envoy or Lich). Power issue still eludes me on possibilities.

Secksy · Oct 22, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Shiro is able to go from construct to construct with his own free will, so I would assume that any spirit can as too, as long as it's of their own free will, and not being forced to be part of that construct.

I question this theory. I think it's only spirits that posses a certain strength and will to return. I say this thinking of Gwen's mother, who has been in the Underworld for some time before (if you take her with you) Gwen went down there. I believe only spirits who posses a special quality in life are able to return to the mortal plane.

We (the players) have extraordinarily power, as we've proved time and time again. Perhaps Thorn, for his time, was the equivalent of a hero and his power has simply grown over time? He may have once just been a normal human spirit who grew in power.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 22, 2008, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secksy

I question this theory. I think it's only spirits that posses a certain strength and will to return. I say this thinking of Gwen's mother, who has been in the Underworld for some time before (if you take her with you) Gwen went down there. I believe only spirits who posses a special quality in life are able to return to the mortal plane.

We (the players) have extraordinarily power, as we've proved time and time again. Perhaps Thorn, for his time, was the equivalent of a hero and his power has simply grown over time? He may have once just been a normal human spirit who grew in power.

I don't see what this has to do with what you quoted. And it is proven that Shiro, as an Envoy, was able to control Shiro'ken himself. In Suinjang District, at the end, is where he does so (you see his spirit leaving each construct when you destroy them). Not to mention it states so in the Prima Guide.

Also, Spirits, and mortals for that matter, are only able to travel through planes via portals made by Odran, or by the will of the True Gods. Thorn would have to travel via a portal, since I doubt Grenth would be willing to let Thorn go to and from the Underworld and Tyria.

The reason why most Spirits don't travel to and fro via Odran's portals would be because they are stuck at where they are, whether by enemy forces or by that being there "destined location." Only those who would go against Grenth's judgement, or is not given a place to stay by Grenth, would be willing to travel and come back.

I do wonder what profession, if any, Thorn is. Warrior? Necromancer? Hard to tell.

Free Runner · Oct 22, 2008, 10:23 AM // 10:23

He has the warrior dance, but thats the only indication of a profession we're ever given. He could simply be a special case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Also, Spirits, and mortals for that matter, are only able to travel through planes via portals made by Odran, or by the will of the True Gods. Thorn would have to travel via a portal, since I doubt Grenth would be willing to let Thorn go to and from the Underworld and Tyria.

Not exactly. Considering the amount of trouble that has been happening in the Underworld, which didnt even attract Grenths attention, i reckon Thorn could get away with....getting away. I dont believe it has anything to do with Odrans portals but instead the actual day he arrives.

On a different note there is something i would like to point out. That is Mad Kings armour. If you compare it to King Adelburns you will notice they share the same style of armour, the only difference being that Thorns is darker and has a belt shaped like an eye. That would indicate he is wearing the same armour he wore as a king.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 22, 2008, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

He has the warrior dance, but thats the only indication of a profession we're ever given. He could simply be a special case.

This cannot be used in any way to connect professions. Many NPCs use emotes of a different profession. Such as:

Eve - Elementalist
Mhenlo - Ranger
Kisu - Warrior
Morgahn - Warrior
etc. etc.

So, cannot really say that Thorn is a Warrior due to his emotes. If he were to say "my skills at using a sword/axe/hammer" than we can.

Free Runner · Oct 22, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Actually the reason they use different dances is due to their model. But anyway i never actually said it made him a warrior. I said that its the only thing he does that relates to a specific profession.

Anyway i have added some new background to Thorn based on the (no longer) missing collectors quotes. i'll be adding somemore over the next few days to finalise it but heres the quick run up of whats new and what i will be expanding over the next few days:

- Thorns relations with Elona: His interest in the Royal Princess there, her fate that apparantly added up to the causes for an unnamed war and my theory about her death being caused by the scarab plague (and as such placing Thorn on the timeline)

- His armour being much like Adelberns.

StarrTheInsane · Oct 23, 2008, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Fear of termites and hatred toward tengu. Scarecrow inhabited by the mad king's spirit? Built by his minions larger and more frightening than his mortal human form. If I had a bone to pick with the tengu, I'd want to be brought back as a scarecrow of epic proportions.

The termites are just the price he has to pay. Maybe it's like Frosty the Snowman, who comes to life because of a hat. He only comes around once a year when someone bothers to stick a pumpkin on top of the scarecrow.

Konig Des Todes · Nov 01, 2008, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Found something interesting about Thorn during the last time he showed last night.

Kind of looks like a Rib Cage/Spinal Cord to me (although the Ribs are down rather low and the Spine is rather thick). You're takes?

Free Runner · Nov 01, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

I'm been trying to compare that to the pictures that wiki has of him and it does appear that he ether has an exposed rib cage underneath his armour or he is incredibly thin. The spinal cord could just be overexaggerated.

On another note, with the constant jokes about Dwarves i'm beginning to think Thorn has something against them aswell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarrTheInsane

*snip*

About the termite fear - my theory is that Thorns fear comes from the scarab plague (which i also believe killed his Bride). The scarab plague, as its name indicates, made insects pour from boils on the victims skin - Termites are a form of insects and for all we know he could have a fear of other insects aswell. I believe his fear directly comes from this.

Konig Des Todes · Nov 01, 2008, 07:52 PM // 19:52

So, this theory, and the one about Joko's origin (i.e., him becoming a lich caused the Scarab Plague), make both Thorn and Joko the same age. At about 600 year old.

Interesting.

This idea would also point Thorn as being the first or second King of Kryta. As Kryta became an independent nation 100 years prior, and we don't know if they started with a king.

The rib cage/spine kind of throw the construct idea out the window sadly. Unless he uses his old body, but is missing some parts, such as his head and arms, so he replaced them with pumpkin parts. That or something literally changed his body. Only possibilities I see.\

Edit: on the jokes, he makes fun of Dwarves, Asura, Norn, Tengu, Charr, and Trolls. Dwarves and Asura are most common, so I would have to say that he might also show dislike to the Asura as well.

That or he likes making fun of them (not really dislike though).

StarrTheInsane · Nov 02, 2008, 04:10 PM // 16:10

He could have been Norn. He doesn't so much make fun of them as he does use them to make fun of other things. He DOES make fun of humans. Also isn't Thorn a rune? Interestingly enough it means "giant."

And I had a thought he might be something like the headless horseman we've all heard about with the pumpkin head. Hehe, maybe the tengu or the termites made off with his skull.

Konig Des Todes · Nov 02, 2008, 08:12 PM // 20:12

I doubt that he is a Norn. He doesn't have the personality of one. If he was a Norn, I'd guess he'd be more along the lines of "what puny human here will challenge me?" instead of "kneel/laugh/beg/bow or die!"

Thorn is many things, from the letter you pointed out (which could have been why his name is Thorn) to being a piece of plant (such as a "thorn in your side" as his personality parallels.). So it's hard to point his name on one origin.

The headless thing was brought up. I personally disagree.

Also, something I realized about Thorn's "spine." It's in the center of his body. The spine is more to the back, not the middle. Making a big spine is one thing, but putting it in the wrong place is something else. My thoughts are currently too chaotic to write anything down, just woke up (late nights suck).

Free Runner · Nov 02, 2008, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Thorn is definitely not a Norn. For one thing he doesnt fit their beliefs. I also doubt a Norn would lead a human kingdom - no hunt in it. Turei Ossa was about the same size as the Norn in life so it is possible to be incredibly tall and not be a Norn. Thorns height could also be a factor brought on by his powers (perhaps a personal choice - i mentioned he takes jabs at the Dwarves in his jokes, due to their heights, so maybe he prefers being taller for the whole "power" thing)

Konig Des Todes · Nov 03, 2008, 12:20 AM // 00:20

I would also say that Thorn - and Turai, Avatar of Grenth, Avatar of Dwayna, and Kisu *although not that much bigger* for that matter -'s height was so that people can easily see him in the crowd. Would you want to look for a guy among dozens who is wearing black armor and a pumpkin head? Don't think so.

He only makes one Charr joke, so it is possible that he just "respects ruthlessness" in his own demented way.

draxynnic · Nov 03, 2008, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

So, this theory, and the one about Joko's origin (i.e., him becoming a lich caused the Scarab Plague), make both Thorn and Joko the same age. At about 600 year old.

Interesting.

This idea would also point Thorn as being the first or second King of Kryta. As Kryta became an independent nation 100 years prior, and we don't know if they started with a king.

The rib cage/spine kind of throw the construct idea out the window sadly. Unless he uses his old body, but is missing some parts, such as his head and arms, so he replaced them with pumpkin parts. That or something literally changed his body. Only possibilities I see.\

Edit: on the jokes, he makes fun of Dwarves, Asura, Norn, Tengu, Charr, and Trolls. Dwarves and Asura are most common, so I would have to say that he might also show dislike to the Asura as well.

That or he likes making fun of them (not really dislike though).

Well, what do we know about the Dwarves from the time we presume Thorn's reign was from?

Well, we know that there is some old alliance between Ascalon and the Dwarves. However, we have no indication that such an alliance exists between the dwarves and Kryta. In fact, visiting Kryta from one of the other continents has a Dwarf waiting to go through the gate along with all the others, implying that dwarves are no better regarded in Kryta than anyone else (although that could just be the White Mantle influence).

Now, we don't know how friendly the Kryta-Ascalon breakup was (it's still some centuries until the Guild Wars, although that conflict arising could be seen as a symptom of tensions from the time of the breakup) but it is possible that Thorn might dislike the Dwarves from the latter siding with Ascalon over Kryta.

StarrTheInsane · Nov 03, 2008, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

I would also say that Thorn's height was so that people can easily see him in the crowd. Would you want to look for a guy among dozens who is wearing black armor and a pumpkin head? Don't think so.

LOL Sucked enough having golems stand inside him this year. I feel bad for him, I really do. If he was only the size of a certain wicker man we know of, no one would know what Thorn looked like at all. So many people came as trolls this year!

Konig Des Todes · Nov 03, 2008, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Ah yes, the wicker man, was a fun portion of that event. Too bad for those two trolls (and many z-rankers). Anyways, this is off-topic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Well, what do we know about the Dwarves from the time we presume Thorn's reign was from?

Well, we know that there is some old alliance between Ascalon and the Dwarves. However, we have no indication that such an alliance exists between the dwarves and Kryta. In fact, visiting Kryta from one of the other continents has a Dwarf waiting to go through the gate along with all the others, implying that dwarves are no better regarded in Kryta than anyone else (although that could just be the White Mantle influence).

Now, we don't know how friendly the Kryta-Ascalon breakup was (it's still some centuries until the Guild Wars, although that conflict arising could be seen as a symptom of tensions from the time of the breakup) but it is possible that Thorn might dislike the Dwarves from the latter siding with Ascalon over Kryta.

I believe it's not a Deldrimor-Ascalon alliance, but a Dwarf-Human alliance that becomes Deldrimor-Ascalon. I say this because of the Stone Summit (obviously making it Deldrimor and not Dwarf) and the White Mantle. I doubt that the White Mantle wanted more "non-believers" in Kryta, due to a conflict of religions being possible to arise.

m0r1arty · Oct 27, 2009, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Just to bring this up again (as it seems to be a big Halloween this year).

Are we going to see the Teller of Tales appear as Lyndsey said we might?

It appears Grenth (or the Voice of Grenth at any rate) allows the emissary of Mad King Thorn to enter the Underworld - especially now the Reapers have gained some control over it. The Voice was even told about the potential for a visit beforehand. This was done for free and gave us abilities that made us immune to those who dwell there. I take it the Mad King himself doesn't live there.

King Frozenwind and Mad King Thorn are royal Allies and King Frozenwind. Frozenwind tells you a dark secret nearly as old as the Underworld itself that he has been protecting the Door of Judgement which holds the ever strengthening form of Dhuum - The Ender of it All, who was never killed, just defeated into slumber until now.

Are they each in kahoots with Grenth? And if so what are the details of it?

Also with regards to Mad King's 'being' his Steward refers to him as a 'spirit lord' and he's plotting his next move. Which would indicate he's made previous moves and has some sort of office over effecting it's outcome.

Compelling stuff.

-m0r

Free Runner · Oct 27, 2009, 09:33 AM // 09:33

The Teller of Tales was scrapped so he probably wont be appearing ever. However these quests seem to provide some information on Thorn. I'll update my original post everytime something new about his appears.